Martijn Konings and Adam Kotsko Discuss Neoliberalism
by MARTIJN KONINGS and ADAM KOTSKO
Stanford University Press is proud to present the second part of a conversation between Martijn Konings, author of Capital and Time, and Adam Kotsko, author of Neoliberalism's Demons.
Adam Kotsko:
You mention that “neoliberalism has a unique capacity to roll challenges to its mode of operation into its mode of operation,” which is certainly true. And I think that my theory of neoliberalism, as an extreme vision of the “trap of freedom” that we see in both Christian culture and previous models of capitalism, accounts for why that is possible—there is always a fresh pool of people to blame. Who would have thought, for instance, that pursuing the American Dream of home ownership would turn out to imperil the world economy? But once that happened, the Tea Party movement arose to let us know that those subprime borrowers were to blame for everything and deserved no government assistance of any kind. In that respect, Trump is in perfect harmony with the neoliberal ethos, as his followers come up with all kinds of improbable “you should have thought of that” scenarios to scapegoat people. And these choices are always moralized—I remember one legislator, during the attempted repeal of Obamacare, asking aloud why we should support those “bad people” who were so inattentive to their health.
These moralizing dynamics seem to be absent from your analysis, and I suspect that might be why other dynamics, such as racism, misogyny, and nationalism do not really figure in it. Your book is brilliant on questions of risk and state entanglement in markets, but it all seems very bloodless—as though a figure like Hayek embraces market neoliberalism simply out of a recognition that the world is open-ended and unknowable. But we know that all the great neoliberal figures were in fact deeply socially conservative and that part of the reason they found such ready allies in right-wing parties was that the market was supposed to be an efficient method for reproducing and even entrenching social and political hierarchy—and, in my terms, for finding ways to blame subaltern populations for their own position, which supposedly results from their own “free choice.”
More generally, I get from your work a sense that there was something necessary about the emergence of neoliberalism, as though it simply fits with the way the world is (according to Luhmann, for instance). I don’t see it that way at all—I see it as a very skillful political campaign that took advantage of a crisis within the Keynesian model but did not supply the only possible, or even the most plausible, solution to the unexpected problems that were emerging.
Martijn Konings:
You’re definitely right to say that the sociology of class, race, gender, etc. don’t play a major role in my book. In part that’s a choice to focus on the way capital and neoliberalism work at a more abstract level and to examine them through the register of economic and financial policymaking. But my specific focus is bound up with a specific concern, namely, to understand the driving force behind neoliberalism’s relentless need (and ability) to blame external factors for the damage that it wreaks. To my mind, the issue is not just that there is always a new pool of people to blame; it is what sustains this logic of blaming.